The Money Gains Podcast
Welcome to the Money Gains Podcast, where we talk all things money and how to grow your bank balance. Hosted by Sammie Ellard-King, Money Content Creator of the Year 2024, we chat with the sharpest minds in personal finance to give you real, actionable advice – no fluff, no jargon.
Whether you're skint, smashing it, or somewhere in between, we’re here to help you make smarter money moves.
The Money Gains Podcast
I Started Investing At 19 And Built A 6-Figure Investment Pot (You Can Too!) - Tom Wickstead
Revealing the uncomfortable truths about money and how you can save your future 💸
Get The FREE 10 Step Checklist That Grew My Portfolio To Over £160,000+ 👇
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In this episode of the Money Gains Podcast we welcome personal finance content creator Tom Wickstead to the show.
Tom exposes the harsh reality of why an entire generation is financially screwed. From government money printing destroying purchasing power to the psychology behind why British people save instead of invest...
Today, we uncover the uncomfortable truths about money that most people are oblivious to and why taking control of your own future through investing is so important.
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Tom on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/tom.wickstead/
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✅ Why you need to start investing immediately with ANY amount
✅ How to use the 80/20 strategy for potentially higher returns
✅ Why you need to avoid status games and social media comparison
✅ How to set up automatic direct debits into stocks & shares ISAs to remove emotion
✅ Why you should download your bank statements and track every expense line by line
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DISCLAIMER:
This video is meant for educational purposes and should not be considered financial advice. When you invest your capital is at risk. Past performance is not a guarantee of future success.
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Today's guest has no savings at all and has all of his money in investments. We're going to find out why. Joining us is social media sensation, Tom Wickstead. Tom, welcome to the Money Games podcast, man. How are you?
SPEAKER_00:Very well, thank you. I've seen some of your esteemed guests and I'm far from it. So you're really scraping the barrel there, but I'm looking forward to it. Yeah, no, thanks for the
SPEAKER_02:invite. Mate, you are doing yourself a disjustice, I think, because I've been loving your no-nonsense approach to finance on Insta. It's been class.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, no, no, it's going really well. I probably started it, I reckon, 10 weeks ago, 12 weeks ago, something like that. And it really just came off the back of me having, I've always had a massive interest in finance. Speak to a lot of people about it. Was going to write a blog, which I think you did previously anyway. Started writing just after Christmas, actually. just on things around saving and just trying to just contextualize things a little bit more because it helps me and helps me think about things and friends are asking stuff like that. And then I thought, why don't I start posting videos on it? Quite enjoy that sort of thing. Posted a few videos and Yeah. Yeah. what's the reason behind it? And then people start commenting and maybe people say things that you didn't expect and you're like, oh shit. And then it, you know, but no, it's going really well.
SPEAKER_02:You just wait until the comments.
SPEAKER_00:Well, I've been called, I don't know, because I've been called a twat three times so far. So I believe that's quite successful.
SPEAKER_02:Oh, that's low and lower end of the spectrum. They'll come for personal reasons. features, bits about your life. It's just happening. I think it is really interesting because I was listening to Cody Sanchez talk about this earlier today on there. There's a new episode.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah,
SPEAKER_02:she's brilliant. And she was saying, just come to the territory. You just eventually have to desensitize yourself from it. And I've done that now because it just is endless. And I think people are angry. They have something to say. It's not a reflection of them. Obviously behind a keyboard, it's a lot harder to, to like, you know, keep your emotions in yeah 100% I think if you if you're seeing you in a street I probably wouldn't be saying those things
SPEAKER_00:yeah I know if we did
SPEAKER_02:then it might be a bit different type of conversation but
SPEAKER_00:yeah and even to the point of I thought it doesn't like affect you or you don't think about it but when you see something you do think ah shit yeah you know it does have a does have an impact you know so god forbid people who are you know superstars or whatever what they see
SPEAKER_02:yeah I think they just I just don't look anymore I reply to a few things that I like, and if I see it immediately, I'm just like, bing, next. And some part of my brain just sort of blocks it all out. I think you have to get to that point. But back to your content, because it is wicked, man. And the reason why it's wicked is because it's so low friction, but high value. Oh,
SPEAKER_00:thank you.
SPEAKER_02:So low friction for you because you're out having a nice jolly up walk, often stopping at the pub. Like having that kind of, for you, it's easy for you to create.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. A hundred percent. Like when I said at the start, like I always wanted to write about finance and then videos just so much more easier. And you can just, you can think about things more clearly. I think when I'm walking and talking about different problems and trying to think about them in my mind and then, um, The real, the real reason, one of the real reasons, so if I just explain, so always been interested in finance, went to a incredibly established university called Leeds Met, which is, if you're not from the UK... Definitely not an established university. I
SPEAKER_02:actually looked at Leeds, Matt. Did you? Yeah, yeah. It was a toss-up between Southampton and Leeds. I literally was so close to pushing the button at Leeds, and then I went to Southampton, and then basically all of my mates decided to go to Southampton, and that was it.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, then done. Leeds is a cracking city. I've never been to Southampton, but yeah, Leeds is a brilliant city. So always a massive interest in finance, did business studies at university, which was a complete waste of time. Because if you're going to start a business, start a business. You don't need to learn
SPEAKER_02:from someone who started
SPEAKER_00:a business. So I actually watched a TV show called Million Dollar Traders, which was on BBC. Oh,
SPEAKER_02:yeah. OK. I remember that back in the day.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So they recorded it during 2008. And there was three people, three people on it was a guy called Lex Van Damme, Anton Creel and a guy who owns Real Vision. called Raoul Pal. Raoul Pal, yeah. So he was on there. We all got like an interest around, just fascinated about how the world of finance works and you can own a business, you can invest in a business and you can go to the supermarket and you can look on the label and you see it's Procter& Gamble and you own a little tiny, tiny slither of that company. I found that really fascinating. Then I did a CFA exam called the IMC, Investment Management Certificate, which is basically like a swimming badge for finance. It's like just not, you know, you've got like level one, level two, level three, and then you've got the bottom thing. So I did that. And then started applying for different things in finance. So did the usual, you know, trying to get into investment banks and that sort of thing. But I just, you know, you imagine if you're Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, and you're seeing little old Tom Wickstead from Leeds Met, you know, with two B's and a C and, you know, I don't know what I was thinking. But from after university, just really started, sounds so boring, but just started chipping away at investments, building up. So you started young? Yeah, really started young, yeah. With little amount as well. You know, nothing crazy because, you know, you're broke, you're a university student just after university. So continued on that path. And I think the real... We were speaking before in the lift around podcasts and that sort of thing. One of the things I really learned from investing, which I wish I can take into other parts of my life, is how important that consistency is. You know, when you've got£500 in a stocks and shares ISA, nothing's really happening.
SPEAKER_03:No.
SPEAKER_00:when you first start a podcast or a business or whatever, nothing's really happening, but it's just chipping away every single month, every single day, whatever it is. And it just suddenly snowballs. And then you wake up and you go, fuck me, I've got a hundred K there. And then suddenly it gets even bigger and bigger and snowballs and snowballs. And it's just, just the most insane thing. Um, so I was really lucky started, um, started early. And then in terms of posting my little deranged thoughts on social media is, um, Speaking to a number of people, I mean, you'll see this more than I will, but even just think, because we're in this world and we kind of understand it. All right, we don't work at investment banks or anything like that, but we're in this world and we kind of get it. 95% of people are just walking down the street oblivious to all of this. And it's scary thinking that Yeah, absolutely. can just change the trajectory of your life.
SPEAKER_02:Oh mate, it's mad. So Moneybox did a study. It's 30 minutes, I think it's a month, 30 minutes a month. It might be a week. I'll leave a link to the study in the show notes below, but your net worth over time is above 50% of the person that doesn't spend the same amount of time. So that's 30 minutes. You just look at your phone screen time on TikTok and you got it right there. Exactly. It can be listening to a podcast like this and if you're doing that, great, because you're here and hopefully you stay past half an hour. But You know, that's all you need and you'll be miles better off over a long period of time. Again, it's compounding not just your money, but your knowledge too.
SPEAKER_00:And
SPEAKER_02:that's going to pay off massively over time.
SPEAKER_00:And even to the point, like I was speaking to, I can't remember, I was speaking to recently and I was talking about pensions and obviously you cover pensions a huge amount. And I was asking them, you know, who's it with? And, you know, and they were like, oh, I don't know. Have you logged in? No, I haven't. And you're just thinking, just want to shake them. Like, let's just wake the fuck up because you will get to a point in your life. It's 70, 80. And I don't know if you know the stats, you probably do better than me, but I think the average pension pot in the UK, is it like 50 grand, 60 grand or something? It's 90.
SPEAKER_02:Is it? 90 for men and then it's around 60, 70 for women.
SPEAKER_00:Which is just, I mean, It's mind-blowing. It's unbelievable. So, yeah, so me posting some of this stuff and, like I said, my sort of deranged thoughts and that, I do try and contextualise and think about things when I'm posting these videos. And if someone listens and watch Fair Play, I've no end game with it. I think we said just before, like, what's the end game with it? Genuinely just seeing where it goes.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's class, man. It's class.
SPEAKER_00:I have just, sorry to, I have... found myself and I bet you probably have when you first started and I hate to talk about social media because I'm just not that sort of like type of person but you do there's just this dopamine thing isn't there where you post a video and you go fuck me, that's done well. I want to try and replicate the same thing and then you do another one and it doesn't do as well. Yeah, and it's just this chasing game.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's a raising bar.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, 100%. I think that happened to me for the first year or so. Definitely. And now I couldn't care less. Yeah. I don't look at the views anymore. I'm like, oh, okay, that did well. What I like to do now is I just decipher whether or not that topic's any good to carry on talking about. Yeah. And whether or not people want to know about it more. That's all I really look at. Yeah. because you can end up you I end up sitting there like literally refreshing the thing and going oh and then I'm like what am I doing and so much of your life gets spent on there I just get dragged on my phone I now have apps on my phone that stop me going on social media at certain points of the day it's been a game changer I have something called brick which I put on my wall it's great man so I turn it on once it's turned on I physically have to so it's good for me in the mornings because I sit in bed for like an hour and a half just sort of anger typing back to comments which are nasty to me and stuff like that and it's not good for you it's not good for your brain at 6am in the morning to be doing that so I now physically have to get out of bed go downstairs and scan my phone for it to let me on the apps
SPEAKER_00:and
SPEAKER_02:I find that I don't even do it sometimes now until like 9, 10 o'clock in the morning and then that my whole morning is free now and it just makes that little blocker is a massive massive difference
SPEAKER_00:and also you know ever since 10 weeks ago, whenever it was started, you know, doing some stuff on Instagram, just finding people like people like you, I know I followed you, I think before, but like a whole, there's a whole world of these creators in finance and it can be whatever, which is fantastic because I think everyone's got the same end game as me is you just, you can understand it. You realize it has a massive importance in people's lives. It can help a lot of people. It's a help thing, right? Yeah. Just, you know, Whereas half the thing on social media is just nonsense. I don't care about some 21-year-old in Palm Springs in half a bikini. Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:Using social media for the right ways to educate yourself is a great tool and 100% it brings people into your world as well and your way of thinking about things because if someone only follows me as their only source of finance knowledge, I think that's a really bad thing. I think you should be following five, six other people who all talk about the same topic to get nuanced opinions across all of them to be able to formulate your own opinion from that thing. I think that's really right. But I want to go into some like finance questions to hit you with it is I think I'd love to know from your view, if you were to start again from today, so no savings, no investments, no house, no knowledge, and you were like little old you, or perhaps it's going to hit you from the angle of like, I'm in my thirties and I really should sort this out. Um, where would you start from day one?
SPEAKER_00:So I would do the following, which is I would start reading, and there's so many books out there, great books, things. I read one recently, Five Types of Wealth by Sahil Bloom, The Algebra of Wealth. I would just start off by trying to figure out and understand simple things like saving, you know i always say you know don't spend more than you earn if you earn a million pounds and you spend 1.2 million pounds you've got a bit of a fucking problem you know don't buy useless shit you don't need and the money that you do have left invest it so i would start and look at some you know that those books i mentioned would be a great And then I'd start to think about and work myself back from that and think, right, so let me look at my spending first of all, right? Where is my money going on? Income's very difficult to change just in day one, isn't it? So you can't wake up the following morning and suddenly decide to earn more money. Yeah, I'm going to get paid more today. So I would start and literally go line item by line item. Download an Excel file of your bank statements and just as a baseline, understand where your money's going. From that, you don't need to pay for any templates or anything else. just create a Google sheet, list out your income, list out your expenditures, where's your money going. To be honest, if you did that, you'd probably be ahead of 90% of people because 90% of people probably don't even track their budget. So I would do that. Then I would really start to pay massive, massive attention to... investment accounts. So stocks and shares, I say everyone rabbits on about, but it's brilliant. And low cost index funds. Again, we're not the first person to say this on the internet. We won't be the last. But a low cost index fund like the S&P 500 is is such an incredible powerful tool for building wealth over such a long period you can't comprehend the mind cannot comprehend exponential growth and how quickly compound interest starts to work and all these fancy terms and i get so many questions from people like you know what does this ticker mean and you know distribution and blah blah blah and all this sort of stuff and i get it it is really confused it can be confusing certainly is confusing but pay a little bit more attention to that will make you vastly ahead of 90% of people and just set up a direct debit into a stocks and shares ISA,£200 a month, whatever it is, whatever you can afford and do that consistency over a long time horizon and you'll be perfectly fine. Your future self will thank you more than you can imagine.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, it's crazy, isn't it? Like, The brain works not like human brain goes one, two, three, four. Yeah. And compounding goes two, two, four,
SPEAKER_00:eight,
SPEAKER_02:12.
SPEAKER_00:It's like that phrase. If you could fold a piece of paper, I think it's 22 times. I think it would reach from earth to the moon.
SPEAKER_02:Wow. I didn't know
SPEAKER_00:that. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:You can't, but if you could fold a piece of paper 21 times, then, and that is basically just the exponential growth is just insane.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:And you've spoken plenty of times with, guests that you've had on this podcast and I feel like compound interest is just everyone just hears about it all the time and it's thrown around everyone goes yeah yeah but no one actually does anything about it until you have guests on like in your podcast or you speak to people and people say yeah once you hit 100k then it just goes insane it's nuts
SPEAKER_02:yeah it really is because you're right you said it earlier 500 quid in stocks you get 10% growth on that it's 50 quid Yeah. And you're like, oh, okay. But you get to 100 grand, 10%, you've got 10 grand. That's, you know, third of the average UK salary and suddenly you're talking, right? Yeah, exactly, yeah. And you're like, well, okay, well, I better carry on with this bloody thing. But it's going to be, it's going to have taken you 10 plus years to have got to that 100K, if you're lucky, depending on how much you're putting in, of course.
SPEAKER_00:And it's not sexy as well. And people see on, you know, people see these like 4X people online and people, you know, flashing, you know, all this quick, money and whether it's rolexes and girls in dubai and blah blah blah all this nonsense and you sway to that because it's easy but you know that consistency like we spoke about before of just having that you know 10 20 30 jesus christ even 40 years what that can do is insane yeah insane yeah
SPEAKER_02:do you save alongside investing as well
SPEAKER_00:no No, straight investing. Straight investing, yeah. Really? Yeah. Fair play. I actually, yeah, my risk tolerance, I feel, has gotten to a place now where I'm more than happy to take risks bigger risks I think at the start I did exactly what I say on all my videos and what you say is you know low cost index funds my risk has swayed a little bit more I think because I can take a bit more of that risk and I'm happy to do that but I think for the majority of people they shouldn't
SPEAKER_02:yeah
SPEAKER_00:they really shouldn't because um
SPEAKER_02:I'm exactly the same as you yeah yeah yeah I went the other way so I was like 90% risk on realized actually I don't like that at all and then went completely the other way so flipped it and then slowly oh we teach the 80-20 principle it just makes a lot of sense but actually at the moment I'm more like 70-30 and it's slowly edging up and up and up because I'm seeing things and I'm like the more I spend time in certain spaces you see more opportunities but again it's that knowledge factor it's like oh I'm seeing things now that I didn't see before and so I'm going to take that punt and that risk and I'm happy to. And that's the way that I'm set up. But you're right, like 99% of people on this planet set it up once, it takes five minutes, low cost index fund, go back to focusing on improving your income.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, exactly. 100%. Yeah. And just do that over a long time horizon and you'll be completely fine.
SPEAKER_02:We've got to this point now where, you know, earning a pretty decent wage still requires you to, you know, have you and your other half in work and your dog. You know, everyone's got to be bringing some money into the house. And that feels like a big difference to even, you know, 40 odd years ago where the nuclear family was still a thing. It still exists. You know, you could kind of get a house on one income and, you know, bring in enough money to sort of sustain a family life. Where has it gone wrong, do you think?
SPEAKER_00:Where has it gone wrong, Jesus? That is a big... A really big question because ever since, I think really the topping point was 2008, that financial crisis and the debt burdens that government took on from that have been very hard to get back from. It really snowballed after 2020. I mean, that has just, everyone can feel that Even myself, I think, Jesus Christ, that house used to be 200 grand. It's now 400 grand. Ever since COVID, governments around the world have realized they have a real big problem. They have a debt problem. There is literally no way out of the government debt problem. It has reached escape velocity. Governments have to print money. That money inflates asset prices. Your price of your house goes up, you know. the stock market goes up, which is great for us, but... If your own assets. If your own assets. Yeah. It's really been a case of, you know, government debt has just snowballed. A big thing is, a big problem I see further down the line is, and people are trying to talk about it now, is we have a demographic problem. We've got an issue with, you know, a potential pension crisis. You know, further down the line, people are not having kids anymore. I've got two kids. Have you got any? No, no kids. No kids, no. Yeah. I'm probably the odd one out within my friendship group of having kids.
SPEAKER_02:Really?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I'm the other way. Really, yeah. Yeah, most of mine have now.
SPEAKER_00:Are they, yeah?
SPEAKER_02:Yeah,
SPEAKER_00:yeah. Yeah, just my friendship group tends to, people are just leaving it longer and longer, aren't they? Mainly because they can't afford it, right? So if you have, you know, people are not having kids anymore. You know, we have to keep people in the workforce because, you have those people generating taxable income and that sort of thing. So more and more people are going to have to stay in the workforce. The government are increasing the age you can access a private pension to 57, aren't they? Is it 2028? Yeah. Yeah, 2028. They know that they need to keep people in the workforce because they can see it down the line that people are not having kids anymore. People are living older.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:So that is a big problem, that demographic issue as well. And how do you solve the demographic issue is very difficult because it is incredibly difficult to incentivize people to have kids. If people can't afford kids, they just can't. I did read some Spanish village is actually paying people to have kids. Yeah, China right now as well. It's insane. It's mad, isn't it? But if you imagine, I've got a younger sister who's 21. She is... She's just left university, 55 grand's worth of student debt. She did dance at university. Jesus Christ, don't ask me why. So she's got 55 grand's worth of student debt. I think the interest rate on that is 7% or 6% or something. I mean, they're laughing. Unbelievable. House prices round our way, I've no idea how she's going to afford a house on her income. She's probably going to have to share... you know, a room with someone in a house or multiple occupancy, whatever it is. And then she's probably not going to have kids because she can't afford them because, you know, either she's still living at my parents' house or that. That's a huge, big problem. But I think, you know, this problem's only going to be exacerbated and the only way to try and save yourself, sounds so dramatic and I hate this, like doom porn, but is, you know, you don't want to own you want to own assets and you don't want liabilities and assets can be anything. You know, it can be a house. Jesus Christ could be art, whatever it is. For me, it's
SPEAKER_02:a stock fund for a pound. Yeah. You still own an asset.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. You own an asset. Don't want to, you want asset. You don't want liabilities, but, Would
SPEAKER_02:you include the house in that then? Because obviously a house is a liability technically.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, see, this is where it gets a little bit. So I've sort of changed my tune a bit on houses because who cares what you call it, an asset or a liability, right? What are you going to do, live in a tent on the side of the road? Exactly. You know, it's more a... you want to have a nice space. It's where you live. Like you can't, if suddenly you start, everything doesn't need to be a line item on a spreadsheet and thinking, right, is that an asset? Is that a liability? I mean, technically, you know, if you're saying, you know, I have a mortgage on my house, I'm liable for that mortgage payment each month. If I don't pay that mortgage payment each month, guess what? The bank's going to book it at my house. So, you know, there is that. But it's
SPEAKER_02:going up in value. It's going up in value, yeah.
SPEAKER_00:There's a limited amount of them. Certainly, we live in an island, so you can't build that many houses. So, yeah, I think, yeah, I don't worry whether a house is an asset or liability. You just have a nice place to live. That's the main thing. But I think, honestly, mate, since COVID, since 2020, to come back to your original question, everything's just gotten so much more expensive. You see this. I see this. You probably see it in the comments from people asking you about help. I see it sometimes from people, you know, single moms. I have, and I'm saying single moms because it tends to be single moms, but message me and say, like, I'm really struggling. I've got a kid and, you know, I can't keep struggling to keep up with rent. Honestly, I have no idea how, if you're in this country and you're on whatever the minimum salary is or the average, the minimum salary in the UK is or what average salary or whatever that is, if you're on your own and you've got a kid and you're trying to survive, it's unbelievable. And I think, really, I've started to see, and you'll see, and everyone will start to see on social media, there is this anti-UK thing at the moment. Everyone's like, leaving the UK, I'm sick and tired of it. And it comes around in winter when it's pissing down with rain. It's all right now when it's 21 degrees. Everyone kind of forgets a little bit about it. And then it creeps back into November when... been raining for the past 14 days and you can't get out and you can't go to a beer garden and that sort of thing it's literally freezing yeah literally freezing yeah and i think that that i think without meaning to get political but ever since labor government came in was it a year ago everyone kind of thought right let's have a new slate you know things are you know we've had whatever we've had previously let's kind of clear the slate and let's start again and it just as per usual and as per whatever government, Labour, Tory, whatever it is. It's just all the same. Yeah. All the same. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And central banks and the printing of money, all of that is just, just own assets. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Yeah. We perhaps have changed our mindset like we live for today very much now rather than thinking about the future. And I see it a lot. You know, I drive around some of the, you know, council estates in the uk but you look on the driveways bmws audis uh you know there's go down the high streets people is normal looking at obviously there may be fake but 700 quid balenciagas cheap debt coming out their eyeballs credit cards maxed up to other things you know do we have a priority problem here in the uk or is there something else going on do you think
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, I think, yeah, we do have a priority problem. People want to treat themselves with nice things and that's, they can, you know, if they can afford it, then that's perfectly fine. If you want to buy a 10 grand Rolex or 20 grand or how much they are, then fire away. But people are too fast to jump at that. and try and get whatever that is because whether it makes them feel good or they want to impress people or whatever. Status. Status. I mean, status games are, you know, it's a zero-sum game, isn't it? When you start playing that game, it's dangerous. And when your friends start getting things and you're comparing yourself to other people, I mean, you do some brilliant posts around this sort of thing, but that comparing yourself to people is so dangerous. They call it, I think it's comparison theory or something like that, that before social media, I hate to bring it about social media, but before social media, like my dad's 60 odd, he used to compare himself to his probably best mate seven best mates right so next door neighbor you know you'd be going oh he's good at football he's good at tennis i'm shit at tennis but i'm good at you know whatever it's so true yeah whereas now you've got basically eight billion people to compare yourself to my sister has it all the time she said to me the other day like i can't remember some woman she some girl she follows on tiktok some 24 year old flying in a private jet to the It's nonsense, right? The odds of a 24-year-old, I mean, I fly plane, I don't fly private jets, but I have a pilot's license, so I kind of understand how much that cost would be from London to the Maldives. It's probably about 100 grand. For a 24-year-old to be able to afford that, right, there is likely a couple hundred of people in the UK who could do that at 24 years old. Probably a lot of them sports players. people maybe the odd people like certain individuals who have sold a business or it's probably maybe 524 year olds that could afford to drop extreme talent or extreme silver spoon exactly incredibly rare incredibly rare but then we'll see that and we'll think what am I doing wrong here why am I going to this office job and going to this call centre and working my arse off all day and I'm not getting anywhere and Everything's getting more expensive and I can't do anything about it. And I'm seeing these people on, you know, going Maldives and all this sort of thing. So that big comparison theory is a real big problem. But I think, you know, coming back to your original question around people buying stuff and that sort of thing, it's kind of like, you know, ever since... finance has been a big problem in terms of being able to finance things, you know, like buying on a pilot, pay later and the ability to have, you know, I didn't realize, everything. I didn't realize you could buy a watch on 0% finance. I had no idea you could do that. Unbelievable. Anything. A wedding.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. A wedding. Yeah. Oh my God, mate. A concert ticket.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah. Deliveroo.
SPEAKER_00:Deliveroo. Don't start me on that. Jesus Christ.
SPEAKER_02:Do you know what I mean? So if you've got that being shoved down your neck and it's so easy in the click of a button as well, you see it like, and they, they now like they've removed it now, but back in the day, we used to put a ring around it and like make it pop forward on the screen. So you're like, well, I could just not pay for it. I don't have to pay for it for six months. Sweet. Well, I can afford it then. Yeah. Six months. I'm going to be nailing it.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You know, I'm definitely getting a promotion. Yeah. And like we stick that in our brains and suddenly we've got all this stuff.
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And actually what I've come to realize, because I played that game, I was the status game and I got myself in debt and I max myself out to the eyeballs, you know, fancy jackets and, and everything you could think of. always turning up to nights out, going to expensive bars which I couldn't afford and putting a credit card down and you know back in the day you just give them the credit card and then they'd come over with a 700 pound bill and you'd be like in your head you'd be like what am I doing but then you'd
SPEAKER_00:be like I worry about it
SPEAKER_02:in 30 days yeah you're
SPEAKER_00:just playing that game right is that how you got into so much debt was literally just playing the game really yeah or credit card debt was
SPEAKER_02:it yeah 90% of it really yeah yeah yeah just you know we had money coming in from little businesses and doing good things but I was living a life that was exactly that, one million, spend a million, spend 1.2, I was doing that. And it just caught up with me. you know, it was a bit of a hard, hard look at yourself and looking at actually, like, does any of this stuff actually make me happy? Like, has it really improved my life? Like, you drive the car off the forecourt, you get to the end of the road, you're like, most of the time, a large amount of the time, obviously, you know, it'd be nice to get in a Porsche every now and then, I'm not going to lie, but... Yeah, I mean, we all want nice things, don't we? Yeah, you do, but like, the novelty wears off is what I'm trying to say. A large amount of purchases, especially tech. Look at your fucking garage. There's boxes of stuff, right? News thing comes out you need that now because it's got a brand new camera or a new feature on it or whatever that is and you just play that game with yourself and I still do to some extent there's certain things that I'm like I love my Nike gear I love my Carhartt stuff and like I'm all right with that. That's the decisions that I've made. But you wouldn't catch me dead in a Gucci watch or like, I just wouldn't buy it. I just couldn't bring myself to even imagine you with a Gucci watch. Nice Rolex or Brighton or something. I've got taste, a bit of Patek Philippe that we're talking. But the, you know what I mean? Like that, that would wear off. I would only buy that if I could buy it like 50 times over in cash. And that's potentially even then, you know, so I've seen the value of like investing into myself and my relationships and the value and my businesses and doing the things which provide me value since then and it's taken a while you know I wear a lot less design than I ever did but you know you get to that point
SPEAKER_00:was it hard was it hard when you talk when you talk that first step of thinking Jesus Christ I got myself in a real hole here was it hard to try and think there's no way out here like how do I get rid of how much was the debt that yeah
SPEAKER_02:24k
SPEAKER_00:24k yeah so it's still yeah it's an unbelievable amount on a credit card yeah Unbelievable amount. You really went for it, didn't you? Hell yeah. Yeah, I like people like
SPEAKER_02:that. I had a great
SPEAKER_00:time. You've got to go for
SPEAKER_02:it. Go for it. Yeah, just proper mess yourself up. No, I mean, look, I loved it at the same time. At the time, I thought it was great. And then when I realized it wasn't, it wasn't. And I was paying out more in interest than what I could actually pay to service the debt. And that's when it slaps you around the chops.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:I'd have probably still been going if, uh, like I hadn't had a little moment, which is basically a friend of mine said to me, like, when do I want to, when do you want to retire? And I was like, yeah, 50. And he went to me, uh, when do you want to pass away? And I said, oh, 80 would be nice. And, uh, then he said, right, cool. How much do you spend a year? And I said a number. And then he goes, well, times out by that. Have you got that? And I went, well, no, I've got minus 24 grand. And he was like, well, what? Um, And that was my wake-up moment. And I was like, okay. Because I was interested in money. I was interested in business. I was interested in entrepreneurship. I always had businesses. I just was rubbish at cash flow. And then thought I was, you know, Billy Bollocks. Yeah, yeah. And that, you know, it comes... comes back round to bite you. And as soon as I flipped that round, it was, it's a process of 18 months.
SPEAKER_00:Is that how long it took you to get out of that? Yeah, fair play.
SPEAKER_02:I went hard on the silent hustles, hard on the businesses, evaluation, awareness, line by line items, tracked everything to an absolute hill. Went, you know, through house parties instead of going to swanky bars. did different things and it very quickly changes around. And then when you hit zero, it's like, well, what now? And it's like, well, now it's time to kick on and put into place and it's funny when you have that kind of growth mindset instead of the consumerism mindset yeah then everything switches around you're like well why would I spend that quid on that thing if I could invest that money and in 10 years time it's going to pay me back that quid to be able to do those things anyway so I'd rather I'd rather have that mentality yeah it does it changes everything right
SPEAKER_00:yeah it's like when you see on the I watch quite a few of those Dave Ramsey clips on YouTube and you see I mean you had 24,000 Jesus Christ some of the people in there humbly And you just think, how have you managed? Like, you've given that, like, you've gone for it there, haven't you? To get yourself half a million dollars worth of debt. Unbelievable.
SPEAKER_02:But they have, like, unsecured student loan debts,
SPEAKER_00:don't they? That's crazy. Yeah, yeah. The US, yeah. It's mad.
SPEAKER_02:With... With student loans in the US, it's unbelievable. It is unbelievable. Yeah, it's where you see, yeah. 200 grand or something. We've got 200 grand in student loan. I'm like, what the hell did you study? I know, yeah. And then they're earning, you know, 40 grand at Target. And it blows my mind with the US. But thankfully in the UK, it's like structured to income. But even then, we're not. given that foundation, you know, like I turned up to university with open bushy tail ideas of like, you know, let's enjoy freshers week and Barkley's bank turned around and went, here's two grand. And I was like, wow. And here's another grand on a credit card. I'm like, wow. Cool. Let's go have some fun. Oh yeah. I've got to pay that back. And then you take out debts from that debt, more debts from that debt. Um, you know, then you're away. Um, So it can easily be done. 100%. When it comes to investing, though, as a nation, we are savers rather than investors. And it is a bit of an issue. Obviously, we've seen Rachel Rees recently flirt with the idea of reducing the cash ISA rate. Obviously, she decided against that for the time being. That could obviously be subject to change. But obviously, there's a drive from not just the politicians, but equally us as well, because we see the value of investing over saving in the long term. But in your opinions, How do we go about changing this?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, so I've tried to think about this question quite a few times. How do we change the UK away from saving and into investing? And I think the US have kind of got it. The US are certainly ahead of us in terms of that. I don't know whether that's just because the country tends to be quite entrepreneurial. It has a lot of risk takers in that country and they kind of incentivize it to an extent in the US. In the UK, I just think it's culturally, it's been baked in. I remember my parents saying, you know, my parents didn't mention anything about investing ever. It was all about investing. You know, save your pocket money. I had a paper round. I think I earned 17 quid a week. Loved it. Best job I've ever had. It was great. So good. On your bike, nipping about. Didn't have anyone to...
SPEAKER_01:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Had no one to tell you what to do. You could figure out your little round yourself. 17 quid a week, flying. Probably had more money then than I do now. You know what I'm talking about?
SPEAKER_02:Legit, yeah. All I did was spend it on computer games or CDs.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. And I think, so my parents were always very, like, you know, saving and, you know, make sure you save your pocket money and that thing. It's kind of been drilled into us just generation after generation, you know, and, you know, and maybe governments incentivizing saving and, you know, that sort of, you know, saving accounts has always been a big thing as well. And then to try and change that, I mean, listen, you know, you probably speak to a lot more people than I do in terms of people who teach finance and who maybe financial advisors, but, you know, We need to teach finance-y stuff in schools. I honestly don't know if it's being taught now. I presume it's not. I think maybe there's probably a cost element of how much that would be to try and train the teachers and all the things around that. But I'd love to see... I did business studies from year 9 to year 11, whatever it was. Even just little things around saving, just simple things around... you know, investing and compounding and just even that half an hour to show kids. I'm so surprised that there's nothing baked into a school curriculum that is around. I know I'm talking about saving where we are, cultural savers, but just anything to do with money is so surprising that that has not been talked about or
SPEAKER_02:yeah we do learn about it in maths but it's the way it's taught as textbook like this is compounding and this is how it works it's like that mate I'm 14 light me up a bit like today guys we're going to teach I'm playing Jeff Bezos you're all in this this is how we're going to invest in these departments we do this I'll be like whoa cool this is gonna be fun do you know what I mean like it would light you up a different way but then you understand compounding in that way or whatever that might all be like you know I'm Warren Buffett the most famous investor of all time you're all different companies this is how we're gonna learn about it today like it's sick right like you'd be well engaged with that but it's you know I suppose it comes down to the teachers themselves and knowing it themselves and having the confidence to understand it and it's way easier to knock out a textbook than it is to teach the kids properly and I'm not having to dig at teachers they do a fantastic job in this country but you know simple cold hard facts when it comes to this stuff like there needs to be a level of meeting the kids where they're at and they're in that TikTok generation of like I want information I want it fun
SPEAKER_00:but I do think you know we're just culturally we're just a very like risk averse type of country aren't we you know and saving is that and there's nothing wrong with saving you know at all over a long period of time your money will just, it's like an ice cube, it'll just melt away. As we see since 2008 and especially since 2020, just melt away. So I think, you know, look, to answer your question, like I said before, we're just culturally just being ingrained into us about saving and that risk aversion. I even had a friend ask me the other day, you know, I've had money in a savings account for 12 years, I think he said. Yeah. whatever percent it is, I've no idea because I don't put money into a savings account specifically. And I just thought to myself, like, you imagine all the things that have happened in 12 years.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:If that money had been put into the market.
SPEAKER_02:Mental.
SPEAKER_00:Unbelievable. Yeah. And that's just 12 years, so. Yeah. 30 years, whatever. I
SPEAKER_02:think, yeah, I agree. I think that you have to think about savings on a short-term basis. That's the only way I think about it. Like, there's things that happen every single year. Christmas, holidays, car insurance, et cetera, et cetera. You're going to be paying for those whether you like it or not. Sue's birthday, you know, unless Sue, you know, cans it off, like, you're going to be paying for it every year. So save for those things and then literally anything else you could put aside to just get it away.
SPEAKER_00:get it away. You had a brilliant guest, I'm actually following him on Instagram. He, um, He released a book, Ryan. Ryan King. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I can't remember the name of the book. Money Made Simple. But he made a really good point. Yeah, Money Made Simple, that's it. He made a really good point about taxing yourself. You know, taxing yourself first and it's the best tax you'll ever pay. Yeah, totally
SPEAKER_02:love that.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, brilliant line.
SPEAKER_02:Yeah, no, I agree. whatever way in your mind can set it up. Like if it's tax yourself, pay yourself first, whatever, whatever is the thing that gets you into it.
SPEAKER_03:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Like whatever mental trigger you need to pull to like make yourself do it, pull it. Um, cause yeah, it's life changing. But talking about your own investments as well, I come across a video you did and you are a massive advocate of investing into tech. Yes. Specifically. And there's a reason for that, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So, I mean, a lot of what I, um, post-online is exactly what we've spoke about, which is low-cost index funds for 95% of people. When I got to a certain level, I was always nervous about saying the amount of money you've got. I don't know. You're a multi-millionaire, mate. No, no, no. Come on. No, far from it. It's just a weird thing. It's a weird thing to speak about. It is tough, yeah. I know some people online do it, but...
SPEAKER_02:I do it and then I go through phases of finding it really difficult.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. I just think it can, certain friends or family and then it just, I don't know. It's not all the people on the internet. It's more. 100%. It's more like, all right, so yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Are you paying for dinner?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Maybe that. And maybe put more people saying, well, I'm that. People just thinking like, you know, fucking hell, Tom's on whatever. Yeah. and he's worrying about X, Y, Z, you know. That's how I got
SPEAKER_02:there. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, no, you're right. You're right. I see it even with like close family members. They look at you different. They talk to you differently. And it's not like I'm not trying to do this to show off. I'm trying to do this to help others, to show them what's possible because I'm just an everyday person, right? So that's all the only reason I'm doing it because it might kick that person in, you know, hole into gear. Yeah. If they do, great. Then I've done my job. So I feel like that's the only reason I do do it. And then I go through phases of being like, it's all right to talk about it. And then I'm like, whoa, don't
SPEAKER_00:feel comfortable. Weird. But yeah, so kind of got to a level where... So you're a millionaire. No, no, no. Kind of got to a level where I was happy with. And then just to come back on the technology question, what I really wanted to take more risk with. Which, like I said, for 95% of people, if you're just working a normal job, you just want to put it into an index fund and forget about it and let time work its magic. The world is getting more digital. The simple phrase is, will the world be more digital in 10 years? Yes, it will. Technology... doesn't care, and specifically technology stocks, we think about the Magnificent Seven, so Amazon, Alphabet, Tesla to some extent, doesn't care about interest rates, doesn't care about what central banks are doing. It just snowballs so quick. We've seen what NVIDIA's done basically since 2022, right? November 2022 when ChatGPT came around. I think technology is just an unbelievable play for getting outsized returns. I think the simple question, and they do that IQ graph where on that distribution curve on the left, you've got like someone who's got an IQ on the bottom, someone who's dead stupid. And then you've got like on the far right of the IQ, you've got like a... They're a wizard or a Jedi. Both of them say, will the world be more digital in 10 years? Yes, it will. And everyone in the middle curve of the distribution of the bell curve, sorry, says, ah, what about, you know, what about this? What about that? What about central banks? What about interest rates? What about blah, blah, blah? It doesn't matter. The world will be more digital in 10 years. So that is my theory. That is really why I buy it. And specifically, if you want to go into the nth degree, is some people, I mean, people hate this company. I've never really understood why people hate this company, but I have a sizable amount in Tesla. Tesla is just, I own a Tesla I have done for two months. I think it's the best car I've ever owned.
UNKNOWN:Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:You could have been winding a few people up,
SPEAKER_00:wouldn't
SPEAKER_02:you?
SPEAKER_00:It's bad, isn't it? People have gone crazy about it. Unbelievable, yeah. I don't get involved in the Elon thing and all the, like, I just think, yeah. And it's so funny. Tesla is a little bit like crypto, you know. Crypto evokes an emotion from people that I haven't really seen before where people go, bullshit, it's a scam. And don't get me wrong, a lot of it is just, nonsense right um and a lot of the use case of it is gambling which is fine that's that can be a use case but um yeah tesla i just think it's the most incredible company uh over the next 10 to 15 years i know a lot of people are going to hate that and people just furious and people get so wound up i try not to get emotional about things like just because yeah you when you bring emotion in then it starts to cave the way a little bit and uh you're thinking. So yeah, we'll see. So you still buying index funds or just solely? Yeah, I do. I do it in, in my, uh, in my pension. Nice. Yeah, I do that. Um, and then in the stocks and shares, ISA
SPEAKER_02:is,
SPEAKER_00:or yeah, all aggressive. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02:And that's how you, you've set yourself up right down. That's the kind of risk levels you're comfortable with, right?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Yeah. But like I said before, Sammy, you know, the amount of people, if you, if you, you're, I don't know, you know 32 year olds working in a IT company and you just want to you're not worried about what's going on in the world in terms of like you know central banks or whatever or you know what's Trump doing this time or whatnot tariffs all of that stuff index fund all the way
SPEAKER_03:yeah
SPEAKER_00:it's why I haven't spoken about it on the thing just because for a lot of people it's not at the end of the day I'm trying to help people right so like you are so that's that's why I've gone down that avenue so
SPEAKER_02:yeah It's pretty difficult if you turn up and be like, buy Tesla. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Not going to, not going to. So I do love a bit of push and pull in some of my videos because you just know that the two sides. When
SPEAKER_00:you, when you do
SPEAKER_02:own
SPEAKER_00:a Tesla or not?
SPEAKER_02:No, no. I have looked. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think I'm like you. I, You know, I couldn't give a toss what Elon does. Yeah. I literally couldn't care. I think they make brilliant cars. Exactly. There's a business and, you know, yes, he is the head of it, but, and he has some questionable views and he's done some questionable things. But at the end of the day, do the cars bang? Yeah, they do. Oh yeah, fire. And that's all I look at. And plus as well, electric cars. car subsidies through your business.
SPEAKER_00:Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02:Unbelievable, yeah. Yeah. It brings my tax bill down. But we are moving in a couple of weeks. The missus has told me I'm not allowed to spend any more money that I can't spend on. Everything's going towards this bloody house move. So by the time this comes out, hopefully we've got in there because if we haven't, then I'm going to... It's been going on for nearly a year. It's an old man moving house, isn't it? It's crazy, man. Yeah. But I loved your video last week. You said it was about being professional. And I loved it. It was like, because for me, I've kind of made my living off not being a gray suit brigade. Like I like being a bit fun. I don't take myself too seriously. And I think in finance, especially. That can be 99.9% of the people in finance. And when someone comes out a little bit different, not conforming. It's a big thing, right? So for you, why do you think it's important not to conform and always be professional?
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I think just to caveat that phrase of not being professional, obviously that doesn't, you know, some people might evoke an emotion that that means just like not giving a fuck about anything. It doesn't. But what it means is, you know, obviously be nice to people, you know, you know, you know, not don't be in, you know, a knob and that sort of thing. It's more a case of, you know, the world doesn't need more people that say fancy corporate lingo, like let's circle back and low hanging fruit and, you know, everything that comes along with being professional as such. You know, all those, you know, I see on people on LinkedIn, Jesus Christ on LinkedIn is an unbelievable platform for just nonsense. Right. And I think the world doesn't need more people. It needs people who, take risks, you know, ruffle feathers, you know, says, you know, like you sell this, you know, your business, you just gone, fuck it, let's do it. Like that's what the world needs more people like that. It's difficult to say to a 21 year old when they're trying to find a job, you know, don't be professional. It doesn't mean that, you know, obviously if you're going to be on time and Jesus Christ, yeah, exactly. But I have something about you, you know, take risks, you know, I remember when I was like 21. Don't be another number. Yeah, exactly. In the system. A hundred percent. Try and push
SPEAKER_02:yourself. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. Do things like, like, you know, like coming down to London for this, like a bit nervous thinking, Oh God, you know, but just fucking do it. Don't they just do stuff. Yeah. And don't be that like, and a lot of people fall into certainly in big corporate companies and where, you know, you are just not necessarily a number, but you do suddenly, you are your environment and you suddenly start saying phrases and you just suddenly then get comfortable and all of that stuff. You just don't be professional.
SPEAKER_02:Have a cold, hard look at yourself every now and then.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. That ain't me. Yeah. It's like when I first, when I started writing about financing stuff like saving and investing, that sort of thing. And I was writing her along with it and thinking, this is just not me, this. I'm just like... I sound
SPEAKER_02:like
SPEAKER_00:everyone else. I sound like everyone else. And I just thought, fuck it.
SPEAKER_02:Which is what ChatGPT will give you in these days, right? Yeah. It just will. It'll just give you a conformed answer. Yeah. And you actually have to go and sprinkle a bit of sauce on it to even make it sound semi-human.
SPEAKER_01:Exactly.
SPEAKER_02:Which is like, you know, that's why for me, I think actually when they say, oh, copyrights are going to go away, I just can't... I always think there's going to be room for someone with a bit of like raw... talent and emotion, which is going to be extremely difficult to match.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah, you can't do that with chat
SPEAKER_02:GP. Which is why I think content like yours is extremely difficult to replicate because it's like, it's you and you're in a different top and you're in a different field and you're in a great time and you're just delivering something like, it feels off the cuff but it's clearly planned
SPEAKER_00:yeah think about it and try and
SPEAKER_02:yeah but it's got that element of rawness to it and I think that's extremely extremely hard for anyone to replicate and it's just that level of like I'm not conforming I'm not sitting down I'm not doing a talking head video with fancy lights and like you know spending two grand on a camera I'm just turning up and I'm just showing the world who I am and giving them that rather than what you what you expect of me to be and guess what you get views and you blow up like you have and I think it's class I can I think if more people can do that in any way shape or form whatever's your advice writing content you know even just you know being a bit different in the workplace or the way that you approach your sales strategy or whatever that might well be when you answer the phone you have a little bit of a a bit of banter with the person on the other end, like, you know, that's going to serve you well in so many different spheres of life. So, um, mate, I've absolutely loved this, but I do want to say, because you mentioned it earlier, you're a pilot.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. So I did my pilot's license, um, in 2022, 2022. Yeah. Uh, yeah. 2022. So you're
SPEAKER_02:solo now?
SPEAKER_00:Yes, yeah, yeah. So Potter around in what's called a Piper PA-28, single engine, four seats in the back. Did it because I needed to get away from probably my wife and two kids. I was about to say,
SPEAKER_02:do you stick them
SPEAKER_01:in the back
SPEAKER_00:or do you leave them at home? Leave them there, leave them at home. It's like half a day out for me. I can just, no phones, nothing, and you can just think about it. And, you know, you just don't want to kill yourself every single time you go. So it's quite a... is something else. It's absolutely brilliant. It's not a crazy amount of money what people would expect to do it. Do you borrow the plane when you go back? Yeah, just borrow it, yeah. I mean, what's the phrase? If it sails, if it flies, or I can't remember the other one. I don't know. Just rent it, I think. Oh, you rent it. Okay, yeah. I can't remember the phrase, but yeah, it's easier to rent it and you don't have any of the problems. How
SPEAKER_02:far can you go when you go in one of them engines?
SPEAKER_00:So you could, I'm just trying to think the endurance, you could probably, I mean, Jesus, if you wanted to go to Ibiza, you could go to Ibiza. Oh, really? But you couldn't do it in one plane. one you'd have to you'd have to stop
SPEAKER_02:and come back
SPEAKER_00:out but to be honest Sammy you'd be better just stumping on a Ryan Air flying gets you there in two hours and you can have a drink yeah that's true yeah do you know what I mean but yeah I think it's I love flying fantastic I did some I did paramotoring which is basically paragliding with a you've got a motor on the back of you strapped you might have seen them sometimes in yeah you can hear them yeah that was really cool and then I always wanted to do my pilot's license so I did that but yeah in 2022 and flying around taking mates going different places so I think I'm flying next Wednesday actually yeah so looking forward to it
SPEAKER_02:it's a cool hobby though
SPEAKER_00:isn't it oh mate it's so good it is expensive and but it's there's just something quite liberating about just saying right let's just go flying and take off and you go
SPEAKER_02:wherever is that a plan in the future maybe get your own little plane
SPEAKER_00:I'd love to yeah there's one there's my dream and if anyone who flies they'll know this plane but it's fucking so expensive is a Cirrus SR22 beautiful plane I think they retail brand new for about 1.2
SPEAKER_02:Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_00:Right. Beautiful plane. Yeah. I mean, you've got to have a goal, haven't you? Fair, yeah, go for it. You wouldn't buy it brand new, you'd get it second hand, but love to, that's like the, like, I mean, it's a long, long, long, long, long way off, but I'd love to do like get something like that.
SPEAKER_02:Compound and get you there.
SPEAKER_00:Yeah. There's me talking there. Don't buy Rolex. It's 1.2. It's probably 1.2. Yeah, I'm going big. If you're going
SPEAKER_02:to do it, do it properly. Yeah, do it properly. Yeah, no, I love that, mate. But look, I've loved this. You've been great guests and really appreciate you coming on. But where can people find your Instagram? Because yeah, definitely encourage people to
SPEAKER_00:go. Yeah, just, so my name's Tom Wickstead. So tom.wickstead. Yeah. Yeah. just follow me there I don't have anything to sell nothing until some company offers me so yeah I'll fucking do anything well hopefully that gets you over the line mate it's been a real pleasure mate you're a star thank you so much really enjoyed
SPEAKER_02:it we'll chat soon thank you mate
